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Mississippi executes condemned inmate Bishop
Published Thursday, July 24, 2008
PARCHMAN (AP) — The youngest inmate executed in Mississippi in two decades urged death penalty opponents to vote for presidential candidate Barack Obama in order to end executions and apologized to the family of the victim in his final moments.
Dale Leo Bishop, 34, was put to death by lethal injection Wednesday for his role in the 1998 claw hammer bludgeoning of a friend.
Bishop's attorneys had argued his life should have been spared because he did not swing the hammer that killed Marcus James Gentry, 22. The courts were not persuaded.
"To Mark's family, I would like to express my sincerest apologies. It was a senseless act. It was a needless act. The world is worse off without him," Bishop said while strapped to a gurney. "To my family, I love you. It's going to be all good."
He finished his statement by mentioning Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee.
"For those who oppose the death penalty and want to see it end, our best bet is to vote for Barack Obama because his supporters have been working behind the scenes to end this practice," Bishop said. "God bless America, it's been great living here. That's all."
Bishop had a goatee and was dressed in a red prison jumpsuit and flip flops when he was executed. He was pronounced dead at 6:14 p.m. Wednesday.
Bishop's statements appeared to signal contradictions about the death penalty in his final hours.
Corrections Commissioner Chris Epps told reporters before the execution that Bishop said he believed in capital punishment, but did not want to die. Bishop also insisted that another man who participated in the crime should be on death row, rather than serving a life sentence.
The victim's relatives said after the execution that opponents of the death penalty might feel differently if faced with the murder of a loved one.
"We lost Mark, not by chance, but by two ungodly men," the family said in a statement.
"Whether or not people believe in the death penalty, until you stand in our shoes and feel our pain ... do not judge. A small piece of justice has been served here today. It does not correct the injustice that happened to Mark, but it is the law and it was carried out as it should have been."
Bishop's ex-wife, Tonya Cunningham, and his nephew, David Wolf, wept in a witness room while watching the execution. Bishop appeared to wink and nod at the two. Cunningham pressed her hand to the glass window separating the witness room from the chamber. Bishop took a few deep breaths and appeared to fall asleep.
Gentry's mother and uncle watched from a different room.
Bishop had acknowledged participating in the attack, but another man, Jessie Johnson, admitted striking the lethal blows. Johnson was tried separately and sentenced to life without parole.
The attack began in Gentry's car after a night of drinking and drug use and continued on an isolated dirt road near Saltillo in north Mississippi, court records show. Prosecutors said Gentry was hit 23 times before the hammer lodged in his throat.
"The pain and loss that these men helped put on us will never be forgotten," Gentry's family said.
Bishop had hoped three pending appeals before the U.S. Supreme Court and a last-minute request to Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour might spare him. Both denied his requests.
At the end of his 2000 trial, Bishop waived his right to a jury sentencing and asked the judge for the death penalty. Bishop said he later changed his mind about wanting to die after being prescribed medication for a bipolar disorder diagnosed in prison.
Bishop was the youngest person executed in the state since 27-year-old Connie Ray Evans was put to death in 1987 in the gas chamber. Bishop was the second man executed in Mississippi this year.
Epps said Bishop spent his last hours "doing a lot of political talk" and discussing other death row inmates. Bishop's parents, ex-wife, oldest brother and nephew visited him Wednesday afternoon. He had a last meal of pineapple supreme pizza, ice cream and root beer.
Sixteen protesters rallied Wednesday outside the prison, urging the execution be halted.
Comments
Posted by padlock (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 8 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Murder, execution, it's all the same so I must ask is the death penalty truly justice or injustice?
My heart goes out to the victim's family,(Truly I mean no disrespect) no one deserves to be put through so much hurt and pain, especially by friends.
In certain circumstances, I believe that some criminals deserve to be removed from the face of the earth, knowing that nothing will bring our loved ones back to us, and to know this young man was killed in such a horrific act,or when our kids are being raped and murdered by some pervert, makes me believe in the death penalty, but when I snap back to reality, here is the justice system, carrying out a random act of murder and it's legal.
So, I ask myself again, is this justice or injustice?
Who decides if laws are ethical or unethical?
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Explain how you can be pro-life and pro capital punishment at the same time.
Posted by sandyman7 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
pro life.....the right of a fetus to come to delivery into this world
Pro capital punishment.....the right for a person to live their life to fulfilment without some one ending it before that takes place.....
Posted by firered (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
He asked for the death penalty when he was being sentenced. He has no one to blame for that sentence but himself. So, yes justice was served. It was what he wanted. I personally believe that having them live on death row to live with what they've done for the rest of their lives is better than the death penalty. But then again there are people out there who just don't care. They kill someone and it never phases them. Those are the people who should be on death row. The sick people who get a sick thrill from killing someone.
Posted by motown (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
IF YOU MURDER SOMEBODY OR YOU ARE INVLOVED IN THEIR DEATH, THEN I BELIEVE THAT PERSON SHOULD BE EXECUTED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, NOT 10 YEARS LATER. EYE FOR AN EYE. HAPPY THE STATE DOESN'T HAVE TO WASTE MONEY TO KEEP THIS TRASH ALIVE ANYMORE. BRAVO JUSTICE SYSTEM!
Posted by firered (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I just re read what i wrote. I meant to say that they should have life in prison not live on death row...
Now,
Motown, when you are on death row falsely accused of murdering someone I will remind you of the statement you made. No appeals for you! Straight for the gallows!!!!
Posted by motown (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I AINT SCARED
Posted by overthehill60 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have mixed feelings about executions. If it drives people completly crazy to be locked in a small enclosure then that's punishment enoungh for awhile. I guess you can say torture them without hurting them physically. Of cource once they start getting use to it it's time for execution. Now if someone hurts someone in my family just let take care of them without a fair trail.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by sandyman7 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"pro life.....the right of a fetus to come to delivery into this world
Pro capital punishment.....the right for a person to live their life to fulfilment without some one ending it before that takes place....."
Excellent post Sandyman. No one can argue with that. I will elaborate on your reasoning.
pro death.....the right of a woman to abort a human being and deny it the right to life.
pro death.....the right for a person to prevent someone else from living their life to fulfillment by way of murder.
Posted by NtzMom55 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
A decade and millions of dollars too late!!!
Should have been hit on the head with a claw hammer before injected.
PRO-EYE 4 EYE JUSTICE!!!!!
Posted by st8player37 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Right on Swapmeet and sandyman7!
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Eye for an eye?
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Explain how you can be pro-life and pro capital punishment at the same time."
Posted by sandyman7 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"pro life.....the right of a fetus to come to delivery into this world
Pro capital punishment.....the right for a person to live their life to fulfilment without some one ending it before that takes place....."
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Excellent post Sandyman. No one can argue with that. I will elaborate on your reasoning.
pro death.....the right of a woman to abort a human being and deny it the right to life.
pro death.....the right for a person to prevent someone else from living their life to fulfillment by way of murder."
I had to repost all this in one spot because it was just way too good. Sandyman hit the nail right on the head. I have heard people say how can you be pro-life (which is opposite of pro-death not pro-choice by the way) and pro-capital punishment. This is an excellent response. By not allowing cold pre-meditated murderers to get away with their crimes without cost of their lives, you are agreeing with the right to life of the victim.
Yes you might say that execution will not bring the victim back which is true, but you might be preventing future pre-meditated murders from taking place which preserves the life of future potential victims because of the deterrent factor.
Once again, yes it will not prevent spontaneous murders because they are not calculating the murder, but then again, most spontaneous murderers are not executed. It is those who planned out their murders or who did it in a gruesome manner that displayed a low value on the life of a human being. I know I'm probably not making sense, but oh well. LOL.
Posted by Hardcorps (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm perhaps one of the most liberal posters on here but, and that's a huge but, I am anti abortion and am waffling on the capital punishment issue.
A few weeks ago a man who was serving life for murder was found innocent by DNA testing. He had served 27 years. A lot of this is happening. Then again when a really atrocious murder occurs I want to see the guilty culprit given the worst punishment possible. That may be confining him to a small cell until he dies. I know that costs but what price is any man's life?
I am hardcore about a lot of things but I try live my life like the Bible advises. In war it's kill him before he kills me. In civvie life it seems to me that capital punishment is murder.
But I have the right to waffle. I'm a waffle wiffer I guess.:-(
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 12:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok I think I get it. You can't end a life of an unborn human but once it gets here there are several occasions in which it is ok. Murder is not ok but killing for punishment is, oh and when govts say you are at war, that is ok too. Is it ok to kill the Doctors who give abortions? Kind of a kill them before they kill situation. Seems like alot of death for a pro-life stance. I'm confused
Posted by DrunkenMonkey (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A number of studies indicate that the threat of the death penalty does not have any significant deterrent effect.
One recent study did conclude that the death penaty does have an impact on the number of murders, but another researcher took the same information and concluded differently. It makes you wonder just how easy it is to manipulate statistics one way or the other.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 12:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Ok I think I get it. You can't end a life of an unborn human but once it gets here there are several occasions in which it is ok. Murder is not ok but killing for punishment is, oh and when govts say you are at war, that is ok too. Is it ok to kill the Doctors who give abortions? Kind of a kill them before they kill situation. Seems like alot of death for a pro-life stance. I'm confused"
You should be after that rant. Your comparisons are not relevant. And yes, if abortion was illegal and a doctor performed one then yes I say execute them. As a matter of fact, a doctor that performs an illegal abortion today should be put on trial, convicted, and summarily executed for his heinous crime.
Posted by missmuzeum (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Drunk monkey--it doesn't deter other criminals. But it sure does deter the criminal that did the crime in the first place! The justice system does just that--dispenses justice. It is proscribed in our law codes that for the premeditated taking a of human life, you pay with your life--whether it's your life in prison or on this earth. Either way, your "life as you once knew it" is over.
Posted by allgood (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Its says in the Bible (Venjence is mine sayeth the Lord)(Forgive and be forgiven). Hummmmm, The world needs to start praying.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by allgood (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Its says in the Bible (Venjence is mine sayeth the Lord)(Forgive and be forgiven). Hummmmm, The world needs to start praying."
Romans 13:1 says "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."
Our government has mandated that capital punishment is legal so it is okay in the sight of God for this man to have been executed because this man had to be in subjection of the government. That is why I Eric Rudolph was wrong for bombing abortion clinics. As bad as I detest abortion and know that it is an abomination in the sight of God, I can't go around killing doctors and bombing abortion clinics because I would not be in subjection to the government.
If I want abortion illegal, I have to go through the proper channels and have Roe vs. Wade overturned. In the same way, if you don't believe in capital punishment, then have it overturned.
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you for clearing it up for me Swapmeet. If we are going by the Bible, the part that says "thou shalt not kill" is open to some pretty serious interpretation. What that really means is thou shalt not kill the unborn while everyone else may or may not be fair game.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Thank you for clearing it up for me Swapmeet."
Anytime humorme. ;)
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is Ok to admit that you think Rudolph was a hero on this blog Swapmeet. Noone here knows your true identity.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually, a believe Rudolph is a reprobate who is going to hell if he doesn't get born again because as Jesus said: "unless man be born again, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
It is impossible for a person who is born again to commit the atrocities that Rudolph commited.
And I would sincerely be appreciative if you would not put words in my mouth or instill beliefs in my character without having heard me expouse them.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well I have enjoyed the intellectual debate, but I must be going to church. I'll be back in town around midnight and will check in then. You guys have a good evening.
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just as long as you are not one of those Religious extremists! It is impossible to have a conversation with them, don't you agree?
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I totally agree.
And in Natchez, the religious extremists run wild.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree humorme. I don't believe in religion. Religion is sending many people to hell in this country. I believe in repenting, dying to yourself, and giving Jesus Christ the free reign in your life in everything that you do. When you do that, you are born again, are instilled with the Holy Spirit, and are given the means to live a holy life in subjection to God the Father. Religion is man-ordained, a relationship with Jesus is divinely-ordained. Take it easy.
BTW, I wasn't trying to be ugly about putting words in my mouth, but I am very protective of being a good witness for Jesus. Someone who idolizes Eric Rudolph does not know Jesus. Okay, seriously, I have to go now. LOL. Later.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Religion is organized brain washing.
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
2pm-Midnight church on a Thurs. You lost me.
Posted by natchez500 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
when will they get to peanut brown and havard been 20 yrs for brown, wonder what the problem is he needs to be next (justwondering)
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Like I said...organized brain washing.
Posted by jack (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
does anyone know why the adams county sheriff search and rescue was in the river during all the bad weather yesterday must have been a drowning for these guys to get out in the weather thanks guys for what you do anyway
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
humorme is right, there are alot of people that claim to be Christian and against abortion, then in the same sentence will spout out how capital punsihment and war is ok.
I personally believe that capital punishment acceptable, but I know it is against the bible, new testament anyway.
Posted by missmuzeum (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So is the New Testament the one to go by, and the Old Testament defunct? And if so, what about the doctrine of biblical inerrancy--that the entire Bible, every word of it, is literally true?
Posted by bestwoman (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I do not believe in abortions, and yes the doctors who do this even if its legal need something done to them. How would they like being sucked apart, and as for as the death penalty goes no I don't think we should have it. I think they should have beat him to death with a claw hammer. AN EYE FOR AN EYE, TOOTH FOR A TOOTH. We start that than i really, and truly believe that crime will go down but I know that it will never happen, so I have to say death penalty is fine!! I hope I didn't offend anyone, but thats just how I am!
Posted by awayfromhome (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I wont claim to preach. I wonder how someone would feel if their sister, bother in law, niece and nephew were all killed, raped, sodomized, shot, left for dead,but died not from the gun shots but smoke, and the sister died from being burned beyond recognition? I am sorry, but I cant wait to watch the two men on death row die. I will be there, and since each victim gets two spots, I will be bringing seven more people to watch. I wonder how this guy got put to death so fast (98)? I am still waiting for the ones that did this in 1990 to die.
And, yes this was all in Mississippi.
Posted by rushinghjr (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 7:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You commit the crime/You should do the time! The subject did just that!
Posted by thick1982 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 9:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Bible says, "Thou shall not kill ". I’m a believer that the LORD will handle it in due time… A judge gives a man the death penalty because he killed someone... I understand where some of you all are coming from but how is that justifying? I do not believe in abortion or the death penalty. Giving someone the death penalty will not bring your love one back. It actually gives that person an easier way out. Let them serve life in prison trust me it would be harsh sitting there waiting on time. That person will cause so much pain to himself or herself. Your conscience is a ___________.
Posted by blessed_momma (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 10:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
awayfromhome: I'm so sorry! Where did this happen? I'm soooo sorry for you and your family! God bless you all!
Posted by Kingdaughter (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 10:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am not for the death penalty at all, I feel that if a person is doing a life sentence than he is in constant reminder of what he/she did. I agree thick1982 with everything you said.
Posted by bombingeight (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 10:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
After a day of thoughtful work, it is nice to come to the ND postings that are so often glorious in their simplicity. "The right for a person to live their life to fulfillment" justifies capitol punishment? Why not a lobotomy and shackles for life? Then we have the continuing saga of the abortion debate... the "right of a fetus", etc. Is a blastocyst a fetus? Is there the right of an egg to be fertilized? Is there a right of the fertilized egg to attach to the wall? Surely we can do better than what has passed for wisdom here?
Posted by c_8512 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 10:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Exodus 21:12
Numbers 35:16
Matthew 26:52
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"2pm-Midnight church on a Thurs. You lost me."
Well, actually the services didn't start until 6:30 but it takes me 2:30 to get there because I went to Woodville to pick up a friend. We stay until close to ten and then headed back home. Just walked in the door. Well, I've got a final at 8:00 so I better be going to bed, and don't rib me for not studying for my final; I have a 96% going into it so I'm okay. LOL. Have a good night.
Posted by southern_bell (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well I for one believe that if someone commits murder and is sentenced to the death penalty , then let God take his life. To me the person who pulls the lever or injects the poison into the arm of a murderer is a murderer themself.
I don't believe in abortion. If the doctor told me my child would be born with half a brain, no arms or legs I would still give my child the gift of life and let God take it home. Not the hands of a doctor. Now I might be wrong for that but it would be murder for me to abort it.
I don't even think I could abort if the doctor told me that I would die giving birth to my child, I would leave it up to God to take me or let me live.
Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Knew a man once that had a son murdered. When they got ready to execute his killer,someone asked him, What good will it do to take another life? It won,t bring back your son.
The man replied to the other person,no it won,t bring my son back,but it will keep him from killing yours.
Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 2:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The bible actually has 3 ways to be interperted. Literal,figurative,and symbolic.
What laws applied to the old testament didn,t apply to the gentiles. The law demands that we live a perfect life,but it doesn,t give us the strength to live what it demands.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 7:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by texasranger (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 2:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"The bible actually has 3 ways to be interperted. Literal,figurative,and symbolic.
What laws applied to the old testament didn,t apply to the gentiles. The law demands that we live a perfect life,but it doesn,t give us the strength to live what it demands."
You are right texasranger. The law doesn't give us the strength to live a perfect life. The law is as close as we can get to understanding God's essence. He is a perfect, holy God. The law actually convicts us of our sinful nature and how we are unable to live up to God's standard and will instead perish in hell as we rightfully deserve. That's where Jesus comes in. He sacrificed His life, became our propitiation for sin so that we would not have to perish.
We do have to repent and be born again, making Jesus Lord of our lives in every single aspect if we are to have our sins covered by his blood. Then we are given what we need to live a holy life: the Holy Spirit. It's not the law that allows us to strive for holiness texasranger, it's the Spirit. It's God that lives in me which is why I don't smoke, dip, cuss, drink alcohol, use drugs, found loopholes on my taxes, or watch filthy things on TV anymore.
I don't believe in sinless perfection, but I know that when God came to live in me I developed a hatred for sin.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 7:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Swapmeet--are you saying that people don't do those things you mentioned because of Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That's exactly what he's saying, and he's saying it very well. I don't expect anyone who has not been filled with the Spirit to agree or understand. We do not, unfortunately, always listen to the Holy Spirit.
Now, I'm going out of town to see my new grandbaby. See you guys Monday.
Posted by SIOUXLADY (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
IF there is going to be a sentence of DEATH then that sentence should be carried out as soon as possible.
There should be an DEATH SENTENCE APPEAL SYSTEM. These courts should deal STRICTLY with DEATH SENTENCES HANDED DOWN. APPEALS TAKING 10-20 YEARS IS ABSURD.. The victim's family suffer as well as the killer's family. TAX PAYERS should not have to foot this bill for no longer than 5 years.
DEATH SENTENCES SHOULD BE CARRIED OUT WITH SWIFTNESS.
Posted by happybunny (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree, if they are going to do it, do it fast. With the amount of money wasted on all the appeals, they may as well just rot in a cell for the rest of their lives.
I do believe in the death penalty, however the process is not efficient. They need to take a hard look at the process.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
One doesn't need to believe in Jesus, the Holy spirit or any other entity to live a good life. Not using drugs, not smoking, not drinking and not doing all those things are personal choices. Many people don't these things and they don't believe in spiritual stuff...so Swapmeets and Freedoms theories don't make sense.
Posted by Gluttony (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
At least my tax dollars will not go to feeding him anymore, Who's next.
Sons Of Sam
http://www.sonsofsam-gluttony.blogspot.c...
Making America Better Since 1622
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"One doesn't need to believe in Jesus, the Holy spirit or any other entity to live a good life. Not using drugs, not smoking, not drinking and not doing all those things are personal choices. Many people don't these things and they don't believe in spiritual stuff...so Swapmeets and Freedoms theories don't make sense."
Actually, not doing ungodly things is only a by-product of being born-again and having the Holy Spirit imparted unto you. Refraining from doing ungodly things will not save you. That's a works-salvation which doesn't really save you. Refraining from doing ungodly things is just one of many proofs that a person has been born-again of the Spirit.
A good moral man who has not been born-again does not have a relationship with God and will go to hell just like Hitler. When Jesus was called good by the rich young man, He replied that there is none good but God. He was saying that by the world's standards there is good and bad people, but by God's standards, we are all bad in our sinful nature unless we have been born-again. Isaiah said our righteousness is but as filthy rags in the sight of God. That is why Jesus told Nicodemus that unless a man be born-again, he shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Either you believe Jesus' words and know that you must be born-again to have salvation, or you believe Jesus was a liar and that you can be a good person to get to heaven. The definitiion of a Christian by it's very nature is a follower of Jesus Christ and His teachings. Jesus taught you must be born-again. A actual Christian by definition has to believe what Jesus teaches about being born-again.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What about the rich man who asked how to get into heaven? Jesus told him that he needed to give away all his possessions. Basically, Jesus told him that a rich person can't get into heaven.
So that begs the question, have you given up all your possessions and become poor?
You are just taking one little snippet of the bible and using it to make a point...and a very poor point at that.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"What about the rich man who asked how to get into heaven? Jesus told him that he needed to give away all his possessions. Basically, Jesus told him that a rich person can't get into heaven.
So that begs the question, have you given up all your possessions and become poor?
You are just taking one little snippet of the bible and using it to make a point...and a very poor point at that."
So Jesus did not actually mean that a man has to be born-again to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus preached more on hell and repentance than any other subject. Mark was the first gospel written according to the majority of authorities on dating scriptures. The first commandment of Jesus recorded in His ministry in Mark is repent. Either He meant you had to be born-again or He didn't. Either He was telling the truth or He was lying. One must reconcile that in their mind.
As far as the rich man, you are putting words in Jesus' mouth. You said Jesus basically was saying you have to be poor to be saved. That's not true. Jesus had asked the rich man if He had kept these commandments and He went through some of the ten commandments. The rich man puffed up and said yes I've kept all of those. Then Jesus tested Him on the first commandment which said you shall have no other Gods before me. That is why Jesus told him to give up his money. He saw in that young man's heart and knew that money was his god. The only way the rich man could be saved was to let Jesus be Lord of his life in every area. You can't be born-again while you still have other god's in your life. For the rich young ruler it was money. For me it was substance abuse and then pride. If you have never been born-again then it is whatever you put in front of God. That is the essence of being saved is enslaving yourself to the will of God for the rest of your eternal life even if you had to go to hell doing it. Salvation is not a get out of hell free card. That is still putting yourself ahead of God. It's about serving Him.
We can run in circles all day long notfromnatchez, but that is not what I aim to do. It seems I struck a nerve and that can be a good thing. Maybe God is trying to speak to you through this conversation. The important question for you to answer at this time is whether you have ever been born-again radically and became a new creature in Christ. If not, the Bible, and more importantly Jesus, says you are going to hell. Even worse, Jesus is being denied the rewards of His suffering and the glory from you serving Him which He so richly deserves. I'll pray for you. Take care.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can assure you that God or any other mythical figures are not talking to me.
But I have studied the bible and I have read the new testatment. Like you I can quote stuff and make it sound really flashy, but it is just a book written by man. The Gospels which you quote were written by people who never new Jesus. These gospels were written long after the disciples had already died. So these are stories that were "passed down" three, four or five times. Now tell me...how accurate can those stories be? Yup...not very.
By the way, if I am going to hell, I will be more than happy to save you a seat.
And don't bother praying for me... I DON'T NEED IT.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually, Matthew and John were Jesus' disciples and Mark's gospel was pretty much Peter's account. These gospels were written 20-30 years after Jesus died. They were first hand accounts. But that really don't matter at this moment.
No, I won't be in hell. That's where I deserve to go, but for some reason that I'll never know in this life, He chose to give me a second chance and call me to salvation. I'm so fortunate. I didn't deserve it.
I'm sorry but I can't take into consideration that you don't want me to pray for you. The Spirit told me to and so I must be obedient to God telling me to pray for you.
I'm going out of town in a few minutes to take the Praxis II test tommorrow morning so I can do my student teaching in the spring. I'll be without internet access so please don't feel as if I'm trying to dodge any other comments you might post. Take care.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I guess the only question left to ask is:
WTFWJD?
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You can ask Him the moment you breathe your last breath because you'll get to meet Him.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No thanks. I don't like asking for autographs.
Posted by Gluttony (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 12:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
How did we move from the death penalty to Sunday school?
On many newspapers and blogs it always seems to be about the condemed person and not the victim,victims familes.
If it was one of your family members beaten in the head with a claw hammer then I think there would be a big change of venue in the way you percieve the death penalty.
Sons Of Sam
http://www.sonsofsam-gluttony.blogspot.c...
Making America Better Since 1622
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Some Jesus-Freak started talking about "thou shalt not kill"...it was inevitable.
The death penalty is needed.
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You have no choice. The Bible says that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord. That includes you. I'm so sorry you are so bitter towards Jesus. But He does give people free will. You'll replay this conversation in your head for eternity one day if you don't become born-again.
And this is not Sunday School gluttony. Sunday School was started by a man who was undermining the authority of a pastor. This is Truth.
Posted by Gluttony (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
notfromnatchez Said..
Some Jesus-Freak started talking about "thou shalt not kill"...it was inevitable.
The death penalty is needed.
That is a good way of putting it.
--------------------------------------------------------
Leviticus 24:20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.
Deuteronomy 19:21 "Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
This is better.
Sons Of Sam
http://www.sonsofsam-gluttony.blogspot.c...
Making America Better Since 1622
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That Eye for an Eye thing didn't originate from the Bible.
King Hammurabi of Babylon first instituted this practice. They were written in the laws known as Hammurabi's Code.
The bible "borrowed" this belief.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Swapmeet--don't pin this on Jesus. He already has enough nails in him.
Posted by Gluttony (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well we have two more executions this month 31 TX Larry Davis 31 AL Thomas Arthur.
Atleast we can see the justice system is working.
Sons Of Sam
http://www.sonsofsam-gluttony.blogspot.c...
Making America Better Since 1622
Posted by Swapmeet (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Swapmeet--don't pin this on Jesus. He already has enough nails in him."
??? That comment makes no sense when you put it in the context of this conversation. Sounds like you just pulled some lame anti-Jesus joke from somewhere. Where have I tried to pin anything on Jesus? I think you are just trying to offend me to the point of blowing up so you don't have to think about standing before Holy Jesus and explaining why you rejected Him. It's not going to work. You will not forget this conversation no matter how hard you try to joke it off. Well, I'm going out of town now. You all have a good evening.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You said "I'm so sorry you are so bitter towards Jesus. "
I am not bitter toward Jesus. He's don't nothing to me or for me. I don't really care about him.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You know, Jesus Christ was not the first to be resurrected from the dead. According to the Dead Sea scrolls, it was the "Teacher of Righteousness". Of course no one knows that because back in the 1950's when John Allegro identified this (while studying the scrolls), the idea was BANISHED by the Church (along with so many other ideas).
Oh but NO ONE can be holier than thou, Jesus Christ. Perhaps the whole resurrection idea was also "borrowed" (copy and pasted into the Bible).
It is so much easier to believe in something simple. The truth is much harder to find and comprehend.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As far as capital punishment (death), OF COURSE it needs to continue! We spend ENTIRELY TOO MUCH MONEY on the prison systems in this country wining and dining theives, gangs, murderers, and convicted felons. Look at other countries such as El Salvador where if someone gets a DUI, the punishment is DEATH! So very few drink and drive!
Here in the US, people perform crimes knowing that the worst that can happen is free room and board! Come on! If someone can not be rehabilitated, what are they contributing to humanity?
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Does anyone know why Jesus doesn't eat M&m's?
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No..why doesn't Je-BUS eat M&Ms?
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
cause they keep falling through the holes in his hands! 12 years of catholic ladies and gentelmen. My parents would be so proud
Posted by dottie (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
He's done nothing to you or for you???????
This is so very sad.
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Not sad at all...I am VERY happy.
I have a wonderful wife, two great kids. I making a living doing a job I love. I have a nice house and two cats.
And all this without, Je-BUS.
Yay, me!!!
Posted by notfromnatchez (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
HA HA HA!! The holes in his hands...that's a good one.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What is very VERY sad is seeing how brain-washed people are! It is the year 2008, almost 2000 years since Christianity began, and you people still haven't proceeded to enlighten yourself of vast reality. You place ALL of your faith, your love, your devotion, your entire life in the hands of a human who existed close to 2000 years ago and an idea that you will be "saved" from "Hell" by following strict rules.
If you would just wake up and realize it is not about the rules, it is not about Jesus Christ, it is not about "God" or the devil, it is about the experience.
Sad indeed to go through life with such a closed mind.... This is so very sad indeed!
Posted by Gluttony (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 7:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well then can I have the M&M's ?
Sons Of Sam
http://www.sonsofsam-gluttony.blogspot.c...
Making America Better Since 1622
Posted by pbnj (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 9:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Obamayamama
"Closed minds" hmmm.... Wasn't it about this time last month that you were bashing a young bride about pregnancy and the small chance her marriage would last. I am gonna go ahead and assume you did not know what you were talking about then, just as you don't now. Bless you.... you must be a poor lonely soul.
Posted by Whisper (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 10:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
More and swifter executions,, less crime. More taxes for worthier causes. Um, like feeding the hungry. Where are all the all mighties when a child is being raped. Well if they exist you can keep them. I will help the child if I can. Obviously the religious all mighties just did nothing. Oh thats right, HE has his reasons. Not good enough. Abortions,, NO bodys business but the womans. And don't forget all these stupid religious wars being fought. Like sheep to the slaughter?
Posted by Whisper (anonymous) on July 25, 2008 at 11:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
When ya'll mention the bible. Is that the same book that was interpreted by "man" about 52 times. Open your eyes and follow your own heart. Stay out of others business. Stop trying to force Your will on others. And if you don't believe in abortions. Then don't have one. And leave it at that.
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on July 26, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Whisper, thanks, finally someone responds without bashing THE TRUTH with false pretenses from the Holy Bible! PBNJ, I know that girl and I know the truth about that marriage. Sorry if I don't believe in the Cinderella story that so many others do when it comes to marriages (which by the way, if you haven't noticed, 50% of all marriages end in divorce in this country). Also, if you haven't noticed, this country is based on FREE SPEECH! That means I can say and believe ANYTHING I want.
PB&J, you refer to me as being lonely, is that because I do not believe in the cult called Christianity? Is that because I do not go to the church and BEG for forgiveness then get out and "sin" like 90% of churchgoers do? Be careful when you respond to that question. Remember what the bible calls "sins", isn't one being "thou shalt not judge"? Didn't you just do that by judging me as "lonely". I rest my case. If you live in Natchez, you judge. Just ask any Afro-American living there and they approve of this.
Go back to church and waste your energy so you will be saved from "Hell" (which by the way is the most selfish part of believing in religion) while I continue with my career, education, and wonderful life ON MY OWN FAITH!!!!
Posted by obamayamama (anonymous) on July 26, 2008 at 9:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh and PBNJ, links to prove what I am talking about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher_of_...
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/prison.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/world/...
I know it is complicated to read, but just try. Of course, I know it is even harder with such a closed mind.
Posted by blogfather (anonymous) on July 27, 2008 at 2:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Do you think people would do violent criminal acts against others if they had a definite assurance that the same act is definitely going to happen to them when they are caught? This eye for an eye perception would probably curtain some criminals. Most are cowards anyway.
Posted by blogfather (anonymous) on July 27, 2008 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT ABOUT THIS IS THE FACT THAT TO KEEP THESE TYPE OF CRIMINALS AROUND FOR EACH YEAR COST MORE THAN MANY AMERICANS MAKE EACH YEAR. WE ARE STRUGGLING TO KEEP UP WITH THE ECONOMY WHILE THEY ARE JUST WASTING AWAY (LIKE THE MONEY WE SPEND ON THEM). LONG-TERM PRISONERS ARE CASH COWS FOR THE PRISON SYSTEMS. THIS IS WHY SO MANY ARE BEING BUILT, AND ALSO THE REASON THAT IMMIGRANTS WILL EVENTUALLY BE ALLOWED HERE. THERE AREN'T ENOUGH CURRENT MINORITIES TO KEEP THIS BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY ROLLING. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME JUST CHECK OUT HOW MANY CORPORATIONS ARE INVESTING IN PRISONS.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 27, 2008 at 7:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hi everybody - I'm back from visiting my brandnew grandbaby! She is a little love!
Swapmeet, I have personally been praying for Notfrom and Obamayamamma for about a year now I guess. They probably don't believe me, but that is their problem. I'm just doing what the Lord expects me to do! Now, I think what I'm going to do is make a list of all of those who are non-Christian and post it on my prayer board. If you and the others on here who are true Christians start praying too, well remember when two are more are gathered in my name? I don't think it necessarly means physically gathered either, but mentally and spiritually together.
I'm not being judgemental, and I'm certainly not trying to "ram my beliefs down their throats" as obamaya keeps saying. All I'm doing is opening the way for God to work.
Have a blessed night all!
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