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Recycling begins with education, local organizers say
Published Sunday, July 20, 2008
NATCHEZ — Amy Marchbanks throws away 30 dirty diapers, at least three empty milk jugs and approximately 156 pounds of other trash in a week.
But Marchbanks and her family aren’t any more wasteful than any other family in Natchez.
In fact, the Marchbanks family is quite average.
In a typical month homes and small businesses across Natchez generate approximately 625 tons of trash — and none of it is recycled.
And the typical Natchez family makes about one ton of trash per year, according to statistics from Waste Management, the company that carries the City of Natchez residential contract.
“It’s surprising when you see it like this,” Amy Marchbanks said. “It’s not something a lot of people take time to think about.”
The family of four — with two children under 5 — has so much trash, in fact, Amy’s husband, Ryan, said his Christmas wish last year was for new trash cans.
“I wanted the biggest ones we could get,” he said. “We wore the bottoms out of the other ones.”
And while the Marchbanks family said they would take full advantage of a recycling service, if one were available in the area, Amy said she’s unsure of how many other people would take advantage of the service.
However Waste Management’s Community and Municipal Relations Manager Buford Clark said in areas where Waste Management offers recycling services customers are responding positively.
Clark said areas like Tupelo, Jackson, Clinton and Meridian have and average participation rate of 35 to 45 percent.
Of those areas Clark said Waste Management collects eight to 10 pounds of recyclable materials from each household on its weekly collection.
Of Tupelo, Clinton, Jackson and Meridian Clark said the average household makes between 1.2 and 1.5 tons of trash per year.
Clark said in most instances that number can be reduced to approximately just one ton with recycling.
“There’s a benefit,” he said.
But Clark said in most places the cost of recycling is more expensive than using a landfill and many municipalities opt for the cheaper option.
Clean towns, green towns
And while Natchez has no means of recycling its garbage, other Mississippi cities are a bit more progressive.
Clark said Meridian has had a well-orchestrated recycling program for several years.
Bunky Partridge is Meridian’s Green Team leader and works with city officials to make Meridian more environmentally friendly.
Partridge said when the recycling program first came to the city about five years ago people were excited.
But while Partridge said participation has waned, approximately 50 percent of the city is still involved in the program.
Partridge said to bring a recycling program to a community the community must first be educated on the benefits.
The waste wait
While interest in other towns may have waned, many people in Natchez and Adams County are chomping at the bit to implement a full-scale recycling program.
Birthed out of the Pilgrimage Garden Club, a recycling initiative began and talks were in the works to get something done.
Marsha Colson, a member of the garden club, said she played a part in reactivating the already present recycling committee of the club.
Colson, who used to live both in California and Baton Rouge, is used to recycling.
“Recycling is something very near and dear to my heart,” she said.
She said moving back to Natchez and not having a means by which to recycle was tough on her.
“I got so frustrated,” she said.
So then the talks began within the club. They began brainstorming about ways to implement a program.
She realizes however it’s going to take a large-scale effort.
So, she teamed up with Stephanie Hutchins who is a member of the mayor’s beautification committee, Keep Natchez Adams County Beautiful, which is the local branch of Keep Mississippi Beautiful.
Hutchins said life was breathed into the committee by former mayor Phillip West and is something she believes will continue through Mayor Jake Middleton’s administration.
She said it is key to work with the mayor on the initiative.
“It would have to be a directive that would come from the mayor’s office down,” she said.
She said to make the initiative happen, it would have to take cooperation between the city and county.
Adams County Supervisor Darryl Grennell said that is something he would be more than willing to be a part of.
“It would make a lot of sense, both the county and the city to work together on a recycling program, this is something that is long overdue for our entire community,” he said.
He said a program would not be hard to implement, it would just take some discussion.
Grennell, Hutchins and Colson all dream of an ideal situation where residents could place their sorted recyclables on their curb to be picked up.
“If you make it easy for people it’s more likely to happen,” Colson said.
Grennell said just to begin with a drop off point would be suitable.
“I would like to start at least with a drop off, that way you can begin to educate the public and get it initiated and then gradually get it to a point where it’s a pick up program,” Grennell said.
Education is key, the three said.
“That’s paramount,” Hutchins said.
Grennell said he has faith that if the city, county and the state, which could give grants, worked together everything could easily fall into place.
“With education along with some small funding from the state and the local government making contributions it could easily be done,” he said. “It’s not going to be an overnight that’s for sure.”
But like Colson and Hutchins, he sees a need and wants to follow up on it.
“I’m really ready to see something happen here,” he said.
But even after education, recycling won’t come to Natchez without one thing, Waste Management Manager Jim Funderburg said.
“It’s not going to be Natchez,” he said. “It’s going to have to be a regional thing — Pike County, Adams County, McComb, Summit, Jefferson County, perhaps Vicksburg. Recycling works but you have to take it somewhere; you have to build a recycling center. It’s going to have to be more than just the City of Natchez.”
Natchez Mayor Jake Middleton said recycling is a priority for him.
“I’ve give it a lot of thought,” he said. “It’s something I’m very interested in.”
However, with only a few weeks past his swearing-in, Middleton said he hasn’t had a chance to do the necessary research and talk to what would be key players for a recycling program.
“I haven’t had time to sit down and talk to people but I’ve told them I’m coming to see them,” he said. “It’s just a matter of time, there’s a lot going on in city hall right now.
“It might be a month before I get a chance to sit down with the people I need to talk to.”
Comments
Posted by anonymouse (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 2:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wouldn't it be nice if Vidalia could get on board with a recycling program? Kudos to Natchez for trying to make it happen. I used to live in a bigger city where crates were provided to each home for paper, plastic, aluminum and glass. Each Week the city would send a truck and pick up recyclables just like they did garbage. It made recycling so easy. There are also other ways to cut down on trash, such as getting a water filter installed instead of buying plastic bottles, using cloth grocery bags and diapers, using less paper towels, buying energy efficient appliances, and so on and so forth.Even Wal-Mart has a bin to recycle plastic bags. Each family in our community can contribute thereby helping secure our planet for future generations.
Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 2:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I do not think people will go so far as to use cloth diapers....
Good luck with the recycling..
Posted by Teach4Peace (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Fire39212, I agree as today's lifestyle would not much allow for the work involved with cloth diapers. I would love to use them with my son, but the disposable are just that, put on, take off, throw away. I have always been receptive to recycling and I do feel it can do wonders to improve the environment, especially with everyone on board.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cloth diapers are not as healthy as the disposable ones. Plus a lot of time and trouble most people don't have anymore. But I would like to recycle more and would gladly support the efforts of our county to do so.
Posted by ProNatchez (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am all for this. I lived in Atlanta for 9 years and the last 4 years, we had a recycling program. I was amazed how much participation we had. Most folks want to be green, but just don't have the options available to them.
Don't we already have a company down by the port that recycles paper? Mississippi River Corporation was the name if I remember correctly. I know they were here about 10 years ago, but I don't know if they are still in business. If they are, we could start with paper, and add glass and plastics in stages as the recycling centers come on line.
Natchez would be a great place to build the recycling centers. We have the port, railroad, and trucking. The added jobs (both skilled and unskilled) would help the local people and the economy too. I know recycling is expensive, but we have to start somewhere and it is a win/win situation.
A convenient drop off point or two would make a good start. Let's get the ball rolling.
Posted by NoWireHangers (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am so happy that Natchez is starting a recycling program.
Once you get the hang of it, it is really easy to do. I find myself
picking up cans, bottles, newspapers, etc...to bring home to my recycling bin. I hate the thought of stuff going in to a landfill that can be recycled and reused.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Anyone who is really anxious to get started should immediately purchase carbon offsets from one of the many fine companies doing business on the web.
Shop around a little though. I find that becoming carbon neutral will cost me from 120 to 1200 dollars a year depending on whose service I use. Since I prefer sustainable products I'm going with the higher end as we all know you get what you pay for.
To find out what you owe to the world, and how to obtain your carbon indulgences, just google "carbon calculator" and you'll have a wide range of choices. You can do this today and it is very convenient, just put it on your credit card. It's painless and it's green.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
While we are at it we need to think about recycling the Johns-Manville and Armstrong Tire Plant buildings with grants available under the Preserve America Program. Other cities are doing it and we don't want to be left out of the funding: http://www.epa.gov/swerosps/bf/policy/Mi...
We owe it to ourselves, to Governor Hugh White, and to Mississippi History to start thinking about this.
Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on July 20, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Enki--don't forget to mention that it is part of the nefarious socialist plot in the guise of environmentally sustainable development to subject us all to a New World Order.
Cotdang socialist environmentalists! ;-)
Posted by fatherof4 (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If all newspapers would quit printing papers, and just use online, radio or TV for news and advertising. That would save several tons of garbage and many trees each year!
Posted by Bobaloo (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If folks would recycle, the weekly general garbage will go down by at least 50%. Twice a week gen garb p/u could go down to once a week. Recycling p/u could be every other week and that right there is less garbage/recycling truck p/u times on the road and fuel in the tank. This is a sytem that me and my family of 4 worked of off for several years. It did not impact our lifestyle one bit. it felt good to not fill the earth up with unecessary landfill that won't degrade properly or quickly enough.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No, Tom, I won't mention that their are five levels of environmental protection: state parks, national parks, national monuments, World Heritage Sites, and Program on Man and Biospshere, and that the last two levels are administered by UNESCO. I won't mention that The 1972 Convention Concerning the Protection of the World Cultural and Natural Heritage (Article 8) established the World Heritage and Biosphere Reserve Program and legislated UNESCO as the governing body over all World Heritage sites, or that the US ratified this treaty with the UN.
I won't mention that Independence Hall and Thomas Jefferson's house and several other national parks are now under UN governance and on their list of properties.
I won't mention that the 1970 unanimous passage of Executive J concerning Privileges and Immunities gave the UN sovereign power in the US alongside our government and native tribes. Or that the 2003 UN Convention for the Safegurading of the Intangible Cultural Heritage was predated by six months in spirit and scope by Executive Order 13287 "The Preserve America Act". I won't mention that the UN treaties we haven't ratified have almost all been enacted through Executive Orders. No, that won't do because that would make me a conspiracy theorist and not a resarcher of the public acts of our times.
No, it would be silly to connect any of those numerous UN Conventions we have ratified with Article VI of the Constitution which says that all treates made are, along with the Constitution, the supreme law of the land. Nope, just plain silly and paranoid. It would be silly to imagine that the US Department of State's Office of International Organization has any function whatsoever.
Posted by Idefinitelymight (Tom Scarborough) on July 20, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Enki--What are you going to wear to the New Environmental World Order? I haven't chosen my outfit yet.
Maybe as one of those derned socialist enviros I should wear red. Try not to clash with me, okay?
Posted by ITSME (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can tell ya some places u pay for your garbage by the pound if ya don't recycle the higher your bill wish there was something similar here bet most e1 would recycle then.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Green is the New Black Tom. Wear Green.
2008 Electoral Policy of Communist Party USA endorsing Democrat Candidates:
http://cpusa.org/article/articleview/907...
Democratic Socialists of America echo 2008 Democratic Party Platform:
http://www.dsausa.org/pdf/eja_may2008.pd...
Socialist Action mirrors Democratic Party Platform: http://www.socialistaction.org/campaigns...
Membership in any of these fine groups costs very little Tom, and won't conflict with your Democratic Party membership at all.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I just wonder if the bucket that fell on EnKik's head was empty or full. What wonders you could have done for humanity were it not for this accident!
A good friend once upon a time told me when you are besieged by diverse threatening forces it means you are neurotic, but when you connect the threats into an allied movement of destruction it means you are psychotic.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 3:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You people are so uninformed. I am trying to tell you about things that are really going on.
Local Agenda 21 is being carried out in Mississippi. Meridian is an ICLEI member, ICLEI is the International Council on Local Environmental Intitiatives. Their homepage: http://www.iclei-usa.org
Map showing the 10 Local Agenda 21 US Regions:
http://www.iclei-usa.org/about-iclei/icl...
List showing Meridian as a member: http://www.iclei-usa.org/about-iclei/mem...
The Preserve America towns will all eventually be ICLEI members, some already are: http://www.preserveamerica.gov/PAcommuni...
Jeb Brugmann is the Global Director of Local Agenda 21: http://www.iclei-usa.org/about-iclei/boa...
Brugmann was a speaker at a conference held by the Global Economic Governance Programme in Oxford last year the the Rhodes House: http://www.arts.cornell.edu/poverty/kanb...
The Global Economic Governance Programme has as its mission:
to conduct and foster research into international organizations and markets as well as new public-private governance regimes;
to create and maintain a network of scholars and policy-makers working on these issues;
to influence debate and policy in both the public and the private sector in developed and developing countries
http://www.globaleconomicgovernance.org/...
Public-private governance regimes, as mentioned above are socialist governance regimes. A blend of social democracy and corporate rule.
It wouldn't matter if a bucket did fall on your heads, no damage could be done.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hell, there is no difference in the every day expectations most Americans now have of government to supply them with education, with jobs, with food, and with health care than there is in the expectations of the major socialist organizations. But we Americans are free! And we don't read.
Nancy Pelosi introduced HJR 166 in 1993 which if adopted would have meant the ratification of Agenda 21. It would also have meant that about 50% of the land in the US would have been either completely or severely restricted from human activity: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c1...
It would also make Agenda 21 the supreme law of the land, which is why it did not pass; no matter, it has been enacted in parts by Clinton's President's Council for Sustainable Development working through various federal and private agencies: http://www.iclei-usa.org/about-iclei/par...
Ya'll applaud your local politicans for development efforts in the area when they are merely being told what to do. And, all this is being done against the vote of Congress, but who gives a damn about that? Why, we are going to get walking trails and recreation centers and be a Preserve America city and a national park, Why gosh, the government is taking good care of us!
One question though, where does the government get the money from to do all this stuff?
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 4:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have an idea, one I got from Congressman Richard Pombo. Now that we have all these millions of acres of land set asided under NPS protection, let's sell timber and mining rights to foreign companies! That will help our debt and trade balance situation.
And, what if we start selling of our highway systems to foreign companies as well, and let them collect tolls on them? Rick Perry has done very well with that scheme in Texas, aided by Rudy Guiliani who is the sole legal agent for Spanish owned Cintra.
I do declare, when did America become such a nation of non-thinkers willing to be controlled by television informercials masquerading as news reporting?
Posted by Bobaloo (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 5:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
whoa.... EnKiKur... you spewed that out Tourette's like........
Posted by fire39212 (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 6:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
DahlingILuvUButGiveMeParkAve what do you do with your recycables once it is full? Or are you not from Natchez?
Posted by anonymouse (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 7:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Uh, I use cloth diapers. I love cloth. It is better for your baby and better for the environment. It isn't hard and it doesn't take much time at all. If you can wash clothes, you can use cloth. It is simple. Much easier in my opinion than driving to Wal-Mart at 2am because you ran out of disposables. Whoever said that cloth diapers are not as healthy as disposable diapers, I urge you to check your facts. I would love to know where you got this absurd information. Do you even know what kind of chemicals are in disposable diapers? How about how much crude oil it takes to produce just ONE disposable? About a cup if anyone is interested. Do some research and get back to us.
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 7:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have often looked into started a curb side recyclying business here in Ntz. The biggest problem would be getting the city to back you. I lived in a small town about the same size as Ntz prior, and they had curb side recycling. I know they used prison labor to sort the items, and I know they made enough money of selling materials to sustain operations. It sounds like some of the readers would back this so I may try to look into this again.
Posted by Bobaloo (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 7:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
you go anonymouse!!!
Posted by happyasalark (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gosh, you folkes should read up on your cloth diapers a little more. "Bad for your baby" ? The chemicals in disposable diapers are bad for your baby. The stuff in them that gels up to hold liquid can be absorbed through the skin and enter the bloodstream. This same chemical was banned from tampons years ago, for this very reason.
If you think cloth diapers aren't practical, you haven't looked into them in a LONG time. These aren't what your grandma used to use. There are cloth diapers available that are leak free, and are made just like a regular diaper. Basically you just throw them in the washing machine after dumping the waste. Not to mention you can get them for about $300.00, and that would be all needed until potty training. (versus $2000-$2500 with disposables)
Of course, this still may be too much trouble for those who could care less about how much waste their babies are creating.
Posted by happyasalark (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 8:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oops. I meant- Folks :>)
Posted by chazbear28 (anonymous) on July 20, 2008 at 9:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I Cloth diaper too. It was difficult to get started in Natchez, as there is no place to buy the covers or all in ones. It was online or nothing. We have almost no food waste at our house, because we compost and now have chickens. All are easy and sustainable options for our home.
Posted by frogprincenessntz (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 12:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I can see that EnKiKur had done his homework and I do not feel he is a conspiracy theorist. I think he is dead on. All of you morons who persist in jumping him need to go explore all the links he gave above. Only when you have examined all the evidence should you spout your opinion.
He did not have to tell me about the Democrats selling us down the river. Anyone with half a brain and an open mind already knows that.
Posted by WalterLynn (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 6:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And we all know, if you read it on the internet, it HAS to be true.
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If it comes from a state department, commerce department, or United Nations website the chances are pretty good that it is true Walter. I have more faith in those sites than I do in the print or television media truthfulness. Because government websites are like looking in the horse's mouth aren't they?
Unless of course, like the dinosaur fossils, Satan has been planting fake government and university websites to trick us.
Posted by humorme (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hippy fruitcakes. Cloth diapers and compost piles, Gross!
Posted by sunkitty (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There is nothing wrong with a compost pile. If it is done correctly it is an excellent source of fertilizer.
At one time there was an attempt at recycling in Natchez. Several collection bins were set up throughout Natchez, one of them was located next to the Historic Natchez Foundation building. This came to a grinding halt because people were putting NASTY stuff in the bins. A dead animal was found in one of them. It works better if everyone is given their own collection bin and the recycle company picks it up just like garbage p/u.
Posted by noneya (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I. too, thank you for all your info and educating us, Enkikur. I find myself agreeing with you on almost everything you post and am constantly AMAZED with your diligence in keeping up to date on all government activities. Also, I see your predections on needing to keep gold rather than paper money is becoming truer every day. You'er one hellava smart man, but I know you already know that. Please keep on educating us...some of us actually appreciate it.
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
EnKik -- you see how out of touch you are with the local population, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.
You spout all that on the international conspiracy to make us live like other Earthlings, and people go right back to writing about cloth diapers.
Frog royalty writes in, seeming to utter that Republicans are the only logical choice, then hints the people that think like that must have at least one-half a brain. Also, submits the concept you are not a conspiracy theorist, as if being a conspiracy theorist is bad. Reminds me of what Mississippi was like when we governed ourselves. Does anyone remember those times?
All this over recycling?????
Somehow I don't think going into an era of tight resouces will see us as a graceful participant. Or maybe that is only true for half the population.
Posted by mike8427 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 2:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sometimes EnKik writes some good stuff, but the majority of the time I have no clue where he/she is coming from. Last week he/she was telling me that the UN was responsible for local historical preservation. He lost me on that one.
But the one thing I really want to know is how does he/she come up with the time to write what he/she does. His blogs are longer than most democrat articles. I have no idea where he/she gets the time,
Posted by sunkitty (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You are so right mike8427. What I want to know is who has time to read all that stuff!!
Posted by noneya (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The man is genius or in the least, borderline genius! I sure he absorbs everything he reads.
Posted by james (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
NO COURTHOUSE RECORDS IF YOU CLAIM TO HAVE SOMETHING YOU SHOULD UPDATE IT OR GET RID OF IT!
Posted by Yeahuhuh (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 6:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Enkik, Is it your position that the sustainable development sought by Agenda 21 is undesirable or that the sterling population of this area and other areas of Mississippi can do a better job on their own?
It was my impression that since Democrats cannot seem to get that sort of plan past a majority that someone would come up with a framework, and that Agenda 21 is more than anything a forum to do that and make recommendations to a world that is generally without direction on these matters. Most of their requests seem toothless until we put our own prison system to work to enforce them.
Let me add that it appears that the reason such legislation will not pass is that the modern GOP's only trick up their sleeve is to sell America's natural resources, tax money, oil drilling rights, forests, mines and everything else worth preserving and regulating back to us in an unregulated form so they can get a percentage and those with the most money right now can develop them ASAP -- with the blessing and aid of their congressmen, of course. I do not consider that much of a trick since they never seem to have thought out the part where we as a people get paid back for their acts like deficit spending, mercury in the water, dead salmon, jobs exodus, etc.
I never really saw the reason to fear the UN. We always just ignore them when we prefer. I remember I used to see an anti-UN sign at Vicksburg when I was a tyke and I always thought the guy who put it up was probably a evangelical pedophile or something. But I was just a child then and now I know he might have just been a paranoid pedophile.
I wonder some times who is going to assist you in the world order you seek. Seems like most of the folks who distrust the UN and act like they hate government are not very smart, and in our area still hold the federal government as an enemy because they made us clean up our act in '64. So few think it out as far as you, don't you think you will get lonely?
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 6:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok, I'm the culprit here and I have based my opinion on the fact that cloth diapers need to be washed at least 2 x per use and can still harbor bacteria. Some babies are more sensitive to this than others. I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT! My first child I used cloth. Then the 2nd broke out in a horrible rash, caused by use of the cloth diapers according to my ped. I used disposables ever since. A large amount of water and energy is used in the washing of diapers, plus the detergent (usually petroleum based btw) released. I never post anything I am not sure about. If you feel better with cloth, by all means that is best for you. Disposables are best for others.
BTW I also garden, can, and have a compost pile. Had chickens too and will have more once the dog is trained.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 8:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Enki - The Kendeda Foundation. Why would a foundation formed to support the worldwide environmental movement give grants to HIV research and to Theatre Arts?
What possible connection other than lots of money that needs to be tax free?
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 8:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One other thing on the cloth diaper question - I had my first child in 1973. So if cloth diapers have improved since them, I am happy for you. But I will still buy disposables for my grandkids. Call me lazy if you want to, I really don't care.
Posted by chazbear28 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 8:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks freedom42. I appreciate differences of opinion, as well as differences in children. Cloth diapering seems to have the opposite effect for my children. I hate to interrupt this otherwise lively discussion: However, my self- proclaimed Biker-Hippie husband took issue with me being labeled a hippie fruitcake (I found it very amusing, still laughing) . He would love to respond to humorme when he is not busy tending our garden, or chickens or doing his portion of the day for our children's homeschooling. My response is: The business of living is messy; Get over it. None of the things we are doing are any more unseemly than I would possibly see your lifestyle.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
chazbear28, how many kids? What materials are you using? I LOVED homeschooling. Had all 4 of them through high school. Don't let anyone tell you they can't succeed. My oldest has a Masters in Biology, next one is a pilot and flying for the State of MS. (can't tell you what dept., he would have to kill me - lol), next one has a degree in communication and about to go into Air Force, and last runs her own business. My oldest just told me that they will be homeschooling their son - of course he will not be born until next month, but I am real excited about that. You and I are probably closer in life style than you imagine! Gardens, chickens, horses, manure piles, compost, freezing, canning, and trying our best to get off the power grid. I'm just an OLD hippy. LOL
Posted by EnKiKur (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 9:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahuhuh Agenda 21 is full of paradoxes, like most religous movments. Really, if you become familiar enough with it the aims are not much different than the aims of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Agenda 21 simply wants to create heaven on earth, and who could find that undesirable? One of the paradoxes is that the people who are bringing us Agenda 21 are the ones brought us the world we have now.
I am too tired to say much now, but the fact is that Agenda 21 is to be enacted Local to Global with or without the assent of Congress. That is one thing I dislike about it. It's not just the Democrats. This is a bipartisan effort, Preserve America is G. W.'s program and it is just Agenda 21 under another name. Local governments are being enticed to follow an international treaty that has not been ratified and many are doing it willingly. Why even have a process of law?
A global planned economy seems unworkable to me; the UN is known for corruption and one of the major features of an economy with a higher degree of central planning is layers of beauracy creating more opportunities for corruption. UNESCO was not allowed in the US for 19 years because of this corrupution until G.W. let UNESCO back in 2003.
Another feature I dislike is that Agenda 21 sees humans as part of the capital assets of Earth, Inc., in the words of one of its founders- Maurice Strong. An asset has an owner. If one is owned, one has no rights except those rights extended by one's owner.
Anyway, thanks for asking serious questions, I'll try to do a better job of answering later.
freedom- what you bring up is true of so many tax exempt foundations. HIV has actually been a friend to many of the more serious proponents of Agenda 21; Prince Charles said he would like to come back after death as a virus like AIDS or Ebola to solve overpopulation of the earth. Sorry, too tired to write more now, have a nice night.
Posted by chazbear28 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 9:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks freedom. I have babies that are 3 and 1. Our age difference is most likely not as large as you might think. Diapers have improved, as have most washing options. I am happy to hear from another homeschooler, albeit a former one, I can't seem to find others. EnKiKur: When my kids get older will you guest lecture for them?
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well considering that I became a grandma today, my oldest is 35 and my "baby" is 25, yeah I think there's a considerable age difference. I'm 60 and you are ? Anyway there used to be a large homeschool support group in the area. We would go on field trips, have science fairs, and even had high school graduation programs. I'm sorry to hear that it's not here anymore. I have 2 families at my church that homeschool. Maybe I can help you all get something started - wouldn't that be way cool?
Posted by happyasalark (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Freedom- I did not mean to point fingers about people not taking the time to cloth diaper...from what I hear from my elders, it was much more of a chore when my parents were young, because there weren't a lot of options.
I also am homeschooling my 4 yr old, (will have a 2 yr old sitting in, and a newborn "slinging" in) and we also have chickens, milk a cow, and have a garden. (although these are things we do with several others in our family)
Maybe we are fruitcake hippies, or maybe we are just enjoying the simple life, and find satisfaction from working to bring our families good things. :>)
Posted by chazbear28 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sounds like we could get a homeschool group going again, just maybe. I would certainly welcome your help freedom. By the way, I just turned 42, and for a change, right now I'm not nursing at the keyboard.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So see you two need to get together and be support for each other! And the simple life is the best life, I know cause I've tried them both. Peace ladies - I'm going to bed now. My old body is tired from the drive to Jackson, getting to see my first grandbaby born, and driving back tonight.
Posted by chazbear28 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
happy, email me if you get the chance. I tried, the system is down.
Posted by happyasalark (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I would love being involved in a group like that! Sounds wonderful!
Posted by happyasalark (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure will!
Posted by chazbear28 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Happy, I will try again tomorrow. There is an event in Jackson this coming weekend that should be fun and informative.
Posted by happyasalark (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes, I will try again later- I have tried a few times with no success.
Really? what sort of event? Like a convention or something?
Posted by chazbear28 (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 10:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes, an inclusive retreat. We are going to the sessions for the new homeschoolers. There are also other events, but I'm mostly excited to meet like minded people, as far as education is concerned.
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 11:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
While I'm not a tree hugger, by any means, and I don't think that home schooling is right for most children, including my nephews and nieces, I will say that the reason we have more termites in our houses today is because people don't build on piers or have free range chickens anymore...the chickens pecked the termite tunnels, ate the termites and there you go, natural Terminex on the wing...termite infestations rose as people drifted to the cities in the depression years abandoning or better yet frying their protective chickens.
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on July 21, 2008 at 11:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BTW...Guineas were good termite protection, eatin' and watchdogs too...LOL.
Posted by happyasalark (anonymous) on July 22, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Still won't work this morning. Will try again later.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 22, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
sam you are usually much more articulate on why you don't like something. Can you give me reasons you think homeschooling is not right? Believe me on this one I'm like EnKiKur - I can give you more reasons it is right. However, I will say some Parents are not right for homeschooling.
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on July 22, 2008 at 11:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
freedom...I thank you for your comment on my articulateness (is that a word...LOL), but I try to be just as articulate for things I like too.
My comments about home schooling aren't meant to judge...I just personally feel that the social isolation, narrowed viewpoints, lack of material resources, lack of team sports and physical education with others, organized extra-curricular activities ranging from cheerleaders, bands and pep squads to Key Clubs and debate teams and French clubs.
I just don't see how a home schooled student can function successfully at a higher level of education without the socialization and exposure to information and contrarian opinion necessary to do so.
I'm not saying that home schooling is necessarily inferior to public schooling and I can certainly understand those who choose to withhold their children from going to a subpar public school system, but there are other alternatives that give superb educations and deliver the social conditioning and stimulus children need.
Additionally, it seems to me that parenting is a license to warp our children in anyway we see fit...we were all, in some way, influenced by our parents for good or ill. I think that nowadays parents fall mostly into two categories...uncaring or overprotective, sometimes both at the same time...seems there are fewer and fewer in the middle ground that have the energy and determination and care it takes to let their children grow, protecting them without smothering them.
It also seems to me to be a disservice to our children to try to protect them so much that we don't give them the chance to put the values we try to teach them to the test. They will ultimately have to decide for themselves, but more often than not, will rebel if too sheltered...it's a fine line that requires lots of love and determination...it's far easier just to keep them in a safe cocoon. I prefer to let them fly, a little at a time, and come back to roost until they are really ready to take on the world. The only other alternatives are to abandon them to the world unprepared or not allow them out in it at all...not good options.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 23, 2008 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think that your last statement is what I need to address first. When you send your child to school (notice I did not stress public school) they are away from you 6 - 8 hours a day. This is a lot of time to be under the influence of someone you don't know, around people whose life style you may not approve of, and abandonded to the world without your guidance. OK, if they are at school that long, and you take into consideration how much time they spend then in all the activities many find so important for their kids to take part in, how much time does that leave you, the parent, supposedly the most important person in a child's life? Approximately 2 hours a day is ALL the time the average parent spends with their child.
And I really get peeved about the socialization thing. Most home schooled kids take part in sports, music lessons, dance, church groups, scouts, 4-H, and just about any other activity you care to name. The only difference is the parents are involved. We are always talking on here about "parental involvement". Homeschool parents are the most involved ones there are. Now I know there is a minority of parents who "say" they homeschool but still have no concept of what they should be doing with their children. And the kids end up running wild and free and never learning manners, grammer, math, or anything but the gang socialization that we see today.
I don't want my kids or grandkids to be gang members, and that is all the schools are doing today. Kids who don't or won't fit are many time verbally or even physically attacked by others.
Homeschooling is NOT for the faint of heart. It is a challenge to keep ahead of the students, disclipine yourself to do the work (housework falls by the wayside), make learning fun, and enjoy yourself in the process.
Kids are not born into this world into a litter like puppies, why should we try to teach them all the same at the same time? Some move ahead faster in one area but fall behind in another. Who better than a caring parent to give a push when needed. Teachers don't have the time, some don't care, to help those slower students.
I guess homeschooling is like religion. You have to believe in it before it works. Of those kids we knew when we were homeschooling, 90% have graduated from college, 5% have made successful lives in other ways (marriage, own business, etc.), and only 5% are just holding jobs.
Also colleges and universities are now giving scholarships and priority enrollments to homeschool students because they can make a better adjustment and know why they are in college. In other words they make better students.
Well, better get off my soap box before I get pushed off. Just remember that many famous influential people have been homeschooled. I won't even get into history here. But you can look it up, I know you have the resources!
Posted by sammohon (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 12:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'll try to argue this point by point and do so succinctly, but I stress, as I did before, I was not being judgemental, I was simply expressing my opinion...in fact, my brother and his wife home school...it's probably right for them, but in my opinion not for their kids...however, in the final analysis, they are their children's parents and I'm not.
I'll take two issues at once...sounds like a separation issue to me...there are 24 hours in a day, eight minimum needed for children to sleep, seven to eight are needed to go to school...leaving seven to eight for home work...extra-curricular activities and all the rest...give an hour or two for extracurriculars...that leaves four or five hours...not two...additionally, there are weekends.
You say most home schooled students actually take part in socializing activities, I have no doubt that's true, but nothing can compare to day by day learning how to get along with other real and different people...I also would like to learn what kind of sporting events are available...competition is the essence of sport...who competes with who?...is it really character building and realistic competition?
You say that home schooling is like religion...you're right..most of the adherants seem to do so for religious reasons and rationlize the rest...regardless of pragmatic concerns for, or the detrimental effects on their children.
From what I've seen the reasons are religious and more realistically, the wife didn't want to work and wanted to be a perpetual mama needinig a "raison d'etre" and the husband was OK with that since it made her dependent. I don't really care about the inner workings of the marital relationships, but please don't tell me the kids are profiting from isolation.
I really need to see the sources you cite for your statistics to believe what you say regarding collegiate acceptance...scholarship acceptance...etc.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 6:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh Sam, what I said was homeschooling was LIKE religion, you have to believe it in to really make it work. I was not a religious person when I began, and many others are not either. But I did want to stay home and be a wife and mother. And what is wrong with that? Some of us are called to do that. I will find my sources and post them later. Got an early job today.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OK, here you go.
http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/So...
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/Homeschool/c...
The first is from a Home School group, the last one from a U.S. Dept of Ed. site.
And I'm afraid I would have to tell you the kids are profitting from the isolation from today's world. Believe me when they are old enough they will find out, and be stronger for not having to face it as young children. I think you have heard me brag about mine many times and their accomplishments. It is always much harder for families to accept others in that family to go a different direction. My in-laws reported us to DHS, but by the time mine were in high school the in-laws could see the difference in our kids and the other grand-kids.
Posted by freedom42 (anonymous) on July 24, 2008 at 9:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sporting events - Flag football (homeschoolers played on ACCS team), Little League Baseball, Girls Softball league, Horse Showing in 4-H (state shows), the list could go on and on. Every outing to the grocery store, the auto shop, the library can become a real life learning experience. All of mine took auto shop and home ec. to be better prepared for life away from mom and dad. They also took Karate lessons, piano lessons, dance classes, and singing lessons.(Not all at once though!)
I guess you have figured out by now that this is something I am truely passonate about! Sorry for going on and on, but when you really believe in it, you just want everyone to know. It's kind of like discovering peanut butter!
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