Posted by gemccull (Gary McCullars) on September 16, 2009 at 12:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It may be dead on arrival if the city does not reduce its millage.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 4:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not against the Rec. Complex, I am against a tax increase. If the BOS and BOA can show the public where the funds will come from to build and maintain this facility then do so. If the only way to fund it is with increased taxes then tell the public what to expect next time their tax bill comes due. I would like to know how this is going to be presented on the ballot. I think it should say, " Would you be willing to pay double your taxes to fund a Recreation Complex"

Posted by sandbagger (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 6:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why didnt SPANKY vote?

Posted by gemccull (Gary McCullars) on September 16, 2009 at 6:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The recreational complex probably just lost any momentum it had for approval on Nov 3.

Our three local taxing entities just could not pass up the opportunity to feed at the trough. After all, it was a wind fall and could be partially blamed on someone else.

Posted by SHELDONKAISERJR (SHELDON KAISER) on September 16, 2009 at 7:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

just call mayor copeland and ask him how he did it

Posted by colescreek (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 7:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I also wonder why Spanky did not vote. We seldom hear about him doing anything at all. Voting should be easy enough even for him. I don't know about the rest of you, but my memory is long enough still to get to the next election, and I'm paying attention and taking notes.The city of Natchez has made a mess of pretty much everything, and I'm not sure what the county is doing, or not doing. If these two boards don't find a way to make this recreation complex happen without raising taxes, none of them should be re-elected. Then replace the school board. All these "smart" people have led Natchez and Adams county into a really deep, embarassing hole.

Posted by shelockholmes (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Concordia Parish has millage set aside for recreation 3.87 mills. If that was done in Adams County these cry babies
would tear down the court house. This is a prime example
of why Vidalia is moving forward. Adams County spends
52,000 on recreation. Beamme you are probably not even paying taxes because if you were working you would not have
time to write all negative stuff you do on this blog.
If the people that came before us thought like a lot of you
where would Duncan Park be now. I believe these boards will find the money to fund this without raising taxes. First if the people vote for it they will have to do it. And they all know what will happen if they raise taxes. Remember the county had planned a 6 million dollar road project without raising taxes. The supervisors have the money they just won't say.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

shelock, They have already stated they don't know where the money can come from. The 6 million dollar road project was going to be borrowed money. You are as clueless about the facts as you are to the amount of taxes I pay.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No plan.
Just a $ figure

18% county tax increase
12% city tax increase
26% BOE tax increase (2 years ago)

This is nuts (but no doubt it will pass).

Posted by joe_the_plumber (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You people can chase smokestacks and Rentech all you want, but the kids are here! The tournaments are already happening! Our youth is the key to our survival. If you build it, promote it, they will come. Just ask Laurel, they made $42,000 at the gate the first day of their tournament. 52 teams. 12-15 people on a team. Families with each player. We have the hotels, we have a great city! Stop living in the past. Think positive guys, we need this!

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

$42,000, That would cover one person's salary.

Posted by hunt4food (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Way to go Joe! What the citizens are going to vote for is if you want a recreation complex or not. It is just a yes or no vote. The citizens are not voting to raise taxes to fund it. If the majority vote yes, then the county and the city are going to explore ways to fund it. They are not required to build it even if the majority vote for it. At least they are trying to find ways to bring in some outsiders to spend some money in our city. The city and the county are going to have to spend some money for our area to grow. We can't just sit stagnant. A recreation complex will bring in thousands of people to our area, year round. Then again, maybe some people just want to have something to complain about. If the community was thriving, what would there be to bitch about.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think putting it on the ballot as a yes or no vote is wrong. I think it should state, do you support a tax increase to fund a recreation complex. I feel everyone wants it but I question how many are willing to pay more in taxes to build it.

Posted by nhs08 (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:21 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by shelockholmes (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Beamme I know the money was to be borrowed why can't the rec. money be borrowed. The road project was a vote getter
the county roads are not that bad. You can always find roads that need to be fixed but 6 mil. that was over the top. I say spend 3 mil on roads 3 mil. on rec. and no taxes raised.
The city and school can find 1 mil. apeice. If you think our roads are bad go to Jackson. Natchez will never change with all the negative people. Where did the 18% county increase
come from that is just stupid. When the numbers are not bad enough we make them up.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am just old fashioned. I don't understand borrowing money when it is all you can do to maintain the bills you already have.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"The state mandated reassessment forced Adams County Tax Assessor Reynolds Atkins to use a newly adjusted building index, which caused the price of property throughout the county to rise.

That rise translated to a spike in this year’s millage.

For the 2009-2010 budget year one mil will equal approximately $215,000, while the previous year’s mill was just $181,000.

This year’s budget calls for the supervisors to levy 62.22 mills, down from 64.39 in 2008-2009."

One mill is apparently bringing in much more money (19%)

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For the future of our children vote YES to recreation on the ballot. It is NOT just a complex. I wish you people would get some education before you go blowing smoke about something you apparently know nothing about. Go talk to Jake or Mike or someone who is involved and see what the plan is. It is for improvements in all sports......a POOL, people, a PUBLIC pool, with racing lanes.....tennis, golf, playgrounds, baseball fields and softball fields. IF the entire facility is run correctly it would pay for itself in 2 years. Please go talk to someone who knows about this before you decide to vote NO!! Its for the children of our area as well as a great impact on the economy.

Posted by concernedNTZcitizen (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It puzzles me that a rec. board member would get paid...

Call me crazy, but people are voted to "SERVE" on many boards. My opinion of serve is to serve your community and make it a better place. You are elected to serve on county seats, etc... The public ask that you serve their best interest. It is your/mine/our duty to serve our country and community for the satisfaction of getting something done.

MHO is, no money should be paid to someone who should be doing his civic duty as a citizen.

Most or all of these people have jobs and don't miss work to attend these meetings. Do you realize the money that could be put into the programs, into the city streets, schools, state budgets, and even the government?

Greed... enough said

Posted by lightcatcher (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The discussion about improving our recreation infrastructure has gone on for twenty years without any action taken! It is time to pay attention to our children and our future and invest in the next generation. I will vote a resounding "YES" to the simple and non-binding ballot, with the hope that our local government will see the support,interest, and desire Adams county has in seeing some real positive improvements come to Natchez. My hope is not based on blind faith of our officials. I will expect and demand an intelligent, practical, and fiscally sound solution to building the complex.

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There has to be SOMEONE in charge that gets paid to run the recreation in the city. JEEZ!! That is A JOB! The entire board isn't paid. See, that is what I mean by THINKING you know something people know NOTHING about. Gimme a break.

Posted by anonymouscoward (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I just read an interesting article on salon.com that might have something to do with this discussion

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/200...

It mentions that people do not want to fund something for people whom they see as different from themselves. I would add that people will also not want to fund something that they themselves do not want to or cannot use.

So the obvious question is not whether to raise taxes, it is: Do you or someone you know plan on using this complex? If so, then you probably think it is a good idea. If not then you will probably spend all day complaining about having to pay for "those people" who use the complex.

I personally think that we need something for the children here. Our playgrounds, as nice as they are, are nothing in comparison to the ones in Oxford or Hattiesburg or Tupelo. We don't even have a place for children to go swimming. If you don' t have children, then you probably don't care, but I do.

Posted by concernedNTZcitizen (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JEEZ... why do they HAVE to get paid? and If paid... why so much?

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"I will expect and demand an intelligent, practical, and fiscally sound solution to building the complex."

Yea, that'll happen. Remember, this is the same town that built the old civic center at South Natchez, spent the "DOT" road money when it was never deposited, etc. etc.

Has anyone seen an ACTUAL, DETAILED cost estimate on this golf/tennis/swimming/baseball/softball/playground complex?

Posted by MsBanker (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm with you hunt4food! There are some people that are going to moan and groan no matter what! I spent several days in Hattiesburg this summer and last for the Dixie Youth tournament and it is unbelievable how many people attend those games! And not just the relatives of the players, local people who don't even have someone playing come out to watch. Hotels and restaurants are full for the entire time. Natchez needs to get with it - we are missing out BIG TIME!

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, someone has detailed out the cost estimate!! Call the Mayor's office and ask him. Call Mike Lazarus and ask him.

concerned.....it is obvious that you know NOTHING about maintaining or running a recreational complex. Someone has to go out and seek these tournaments that happen. There are bids on these tournaments 2-3 years in advance. Dixie youth knows right now where the world series will be in 2010. It has to be someone's JOB to promote the sports that we want to come here and we can't do that with some rinky-dink run down facility. The grass has to be kept emaculate, trimmed, edged, fields dragged, JEEZ the list goes on and on!!!

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I did not know that had sent out bid documents.

Thanks

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't think the cities that host the Olympics manage to turn a profit.

Posted by concernedNTZcitizen (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 9:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

yes.. and u have to pay umpires and scorekeepers and concession workers. I am WELL aware of what it takes to put on tournaments. It is NOT an easy job. I have helped and have children who play all over ms and La.

I will leave the bickering to you all, because I wasn't aware it was such a hard job to make a phone call to get teams, to get umpires, to drop off flyers at a printing company ETC. Maybe I just live in a fantasy, stress free world.

Have a Blessed Day.

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 9:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We aren't hosting the Olympics!

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

what I'm hearing on the YES side is that we need more ballfields for youth baseball and softball.....I just don't see it that way....

we already have plenty of those and it costs us in excess of $250,000 just to cut the grass.....Liberty Ball Park and Duncan Park will do fine for ball tournaments if we just take care of that....upgrade what we already have if the money is there....

and in my mind a recreational complex should not be so ONE sport oriented...I'm all for sports and recreation, health and fitness, as you all know I am a martial arts instructor and I provide a service for our community. Me and my students PAY OUR WAY and don't ask government for ONE CRYING DIME. I pay my fees and taxes, SO SHOULD EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!!! Baseball people quit begging and crying and show some initiative, form a corp. and do your own thing.....

Let's wait and see how our budget runs for a year or two and if the money is there and get out of debt, then maybe so. In the meantime put down in writing a detailed set of plans, blueprints, costs, etc- then we'll have something to make a good decision with.....

but in reality, property tax has gone up 20% for EVERYONE in Natchez/Adams Co, so there will be an increase of tax revenue, but the City and County are in debt, I SAID DEBT!!!! People are moving OUT of MS due to high taxes....citizens will have less spendable income for sports and luxuries....it's not so obvious to me that the money will be there for this.

Anyway the basic principle of government providing sports complex and services is not the right way. If there is so much need for more or better ballparks, then you parents or companies (such as Sports Center that makes a KILLING on uniforms) get yourselves together, form a corporation and build one YOURSELF....make money and pay your way...and leave our government out of it, then you can do what you want without a lot of extra gov't nonsense. And our city and county can stay streamlined and focused on public safety issues, roads, and the basics of community/public life as should be.

I will vote NO

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OMG

take a look at what Highland Health Club is now

a church (a good one from what I hear)

but it had all that, pool, skating rink, weights, all the latest gadgets and facilities......

they went broke.....and had to sell

if a private money making hard working outfit can't make it, what makes you think a wasteful government entity can do any better......

Posted by shelockholmes (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe it will help to know there is a marketing committee being formed to answer all your questions. There are cost estimates. I was told all the questions will be answered.
There is a public forum to be held for all the naysayers to get the answers. I would bet my life you non believers will not show. Butch Brown always said a no just means you don't have enough imformation. This could be great for Adams County. Even if your not for it you should at least admire the people that are trying to make a difference. Ask not what your county has done for you, but what you have done for your county!!!!!

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If they borrow 2 million for 30 years it will run about $144,000 per year, guess the administration would run another $80,000 and the utilities how about another $100,000 and throw in maintenance costs of another $100.000. It is hard for me to see how this facility could pay for itself in 2 years as someone suggested. I honestly think it would cost more but didn't want to offend anyone.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Besides isn't this socialized sports. None of us want socializm, right.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Those that are for the complex should like my last post. The word takes on an entirely different meaning when you use a z instead of an s.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm all for sports and raising our kids healthy and strong and providing facilities for education and sports....

I'm also against government being in business- that is the definition of fascism, don't do it, don't allow it...

Put your belief and action into independence and private sector business for profit....

Vote YES for higher taxes, if that's what you want

But I will vote NO, as I want taxes DOWN... so then we will have more money in our pockets to do things as we wish, such as fund a privately run recreational complex....

Posted by 2008 (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There is no excuse for Adams County or the city of Natchez to go further into debt for a recreational center. Waste more time with all the marketing committees you want but fiscal responsibility means NO MORE LOANS.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The more government provides to the citizens the more control they have over us. Kinda like zoo animals, we become dependent and can never be set free or survive in the wild again.

Posted by Hardcorps (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

They won't have to worry about a complex if there aren't enough people left in Natchez to scrap up a team.

My son didn't get his picture like the rest of the tee ball team. When I went up to the Sports Center on Union to ask Clarence if he could look for the pic, he said the pics had ALL been handed out and called me everything but a white man. When I go in there now I see a clique hanging around the goods of whatever season is in and I can't get waited on.
I haven't bought anything there in a long time.

Posted by 2008 (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have written this before and I will say it again:

" If it is so important to have a recreation facility in Natchez… please utilize the accommodations at Duncan Park for the youth of Natchez. If renovation is needed form a committee of interested citizens and apply for grants, look into private funding, do fund raisers for a year. Go to the schools and promote parent participation through the school system, PTA meetings, town hall, little league teams, just get out and take responsibility for what you want and go to work on it.

Natchez has the advantage of now having all these hotel rooms and bed and breakfasts here in Natchez that would benefit from the tourists going to Vidalia. (where they don’t have the accommodations)"

Posted by Crakalakin (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Posted by beammeupscotty

The more government provides to the citizens the more control they have over us. Kinda like zoo animals, we become dependent and can never be set free or survive in the wild again."

Well said but I don't think anyone cares about being a serf. People sell their freedoms for a little coin and a promise of roses. They just want to have government provided fun, government provided jobs and government provided lives. In short, they want to be slaves to government so long as they don't have to do any heavy lifting themselves. There is a tale about "bread and circuses" that sums up the Natchez mentality perfectly.

I find it hilarious that people here think that these other, larger cities who have expensive recreation complexes to pay for will cheerfully give up the tournaments they host to Natchez. Products of the local educational system, no doubt.

"If you build it, they will come". How ignorant. Life is not a Hollywood fantasy movie starring Kevin Costner. God help you people who can't even differentiate between movies and reality.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Want to take a look at facilities that will carry their own load? Go for a swim at the Duncan Park pool. They couldn't even keep THAT running.

Posted by 2008 (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

shelockholmes, joe_the_plumber, hunt4food, omg,
lightcatcher, MsBanker

If you want a Rec. complex take responsibility for getting the $$$$$ for it by private funds. Why should we pay for a loan to accomplish this. We have so many rooms to rent between the hotels and local B&B's that Vidalia doesn't have, we have restaurants that Vidalia doesn't have. Use their Rec. complex, let Louisiana take out the loans, Natchez needs to take $$$$$ in with all the tourist establishments here in town, not bleed more $$$$$ out in loans or a duplicated Rec. center on this side of the bridge.

Posted by grungebob (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The vote was politically safe. Watts knows there is no public support for a rec. facility. His speculations on who will pay recurring maintenance costs hedges the bet nicely as well.

Posted by hunt4food (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kinda funny that the city and the county start talking and asking if the citizens of Natchez would be interested in a rec. complex and the naysayers are already taxing us to build it. I have not heard one county or city official say that they are going to raise taxes to build it. Then again what should I expect. Lets just keep promoting the old homes and the view of the river. That's really moving us right along. Maybe, just maybe if they built a complex it would bring in enough money that they could lower sales taxes in the area. Or lower city or county taxes. Or maybe we should sit around and wait. Hey, what about letting Vidalia do it. Great, be a follower, not a leader. Let's depend on Vidalia. Maybe if we wait long enough, you know to see if the budget is going to work, all the kids in the area will be grown or moved away and we won't have to build a complex. Then we can wait on them to get old enough to come back and see all the old homes.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i'm not a CPA, but if the city is already in debt, how do you think they'll raise the money to finance it?

how'd they fiance the "advertising budget"? Hotel TAX.

maybe they can just go pick some money off of those special trees. where are they?

Posted by joe_the_plumber (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You have a bond issue. It can be done without raising taxes.

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This isn't enough information out about this recreation complex... Mayor Kip Holden here in Baton Rouge put something like this on the ballot last year.. and it didn't get approved by voters because there weren't enough specifics about it... I see the same thing happening here. How will you pay for it? How long will it take? What is the complex going to contain.. Are these things hard to get out to voters before it is put on the ballot... I would vote no.. because there aren't enough details.. and I'm sure that information is being withheld intentionally.

Posted by gemccull (Gary McCullars) on September 16, 2009 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The reception center was supposed to be a great tourist attraction. No, wait, we need a new convention center. No, wait, we need a more hotel rooms. No, wait, we need to tax rooms and hamburgers. No, wait, we need a bed tax. No, wait, we need a recreation center. No, wait, we need to hire consultants to tell us what we are suppose to all ready know. No, wait, we need two more casinos. No wait, ...................

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Those of you who think this recreation complex will bring people to Natchez you smoking dust

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"You have a bond issue. It can be done without raising taxes."....

Yea. Kinda like those bond issue the federal government keeps having (adding trillions to the debt will never lead to higher taxes).

Maybe you can get China to buy these bonds, too.

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lol@ Gary.. Natchez should rely on more jobs to attract people not tourism... bottom line.

Posted by hunt4food (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thats what we need to do, let's just sit around and wait and wait and wait and..... I've been waiting for things in Natchez my whole life. I'm tired of waiting. It's time for something to get done. If we did what alot of you are saying on this site we would just wait and wait. The reception center is good for the tourist. I don't know that I would call it an attraction but in addition to other things it's nice to have. The hotel rooms that are here did not cost anyone on this site a dime, so quit complaining about them. The recreation Complex is an attraction. Been there, done that. Quit complaining and get behind something that could possibly generate alot of income for the city. Or we could just wait and wait and......

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't have a solution for the problems Natchez suffers from. The place has so many, but you have to start somewhere and I think that starting point should be getting taxes under control. That means no new taxes and no increase in taxes. I would go on from there but I have no hope of acomplishing the first.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Refurb Duncan Park. It's already there. Location is great. Hole is already dug for the pool.

Posted by joe_the_plumber (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There will be more specifics October 21 when the mayor has a public forum to discuss the referendum. I know the city and county have not always been right in their decisions. Thats why the public needs to get involved. Having a recreation complex puts it in our hands. These tournaments are huge money makers. The kids are already here. The kids are the future of Natchez. In all aspects, I might add. The future of our healthcare, doctors, nurses lie in the hands of our youth. We need to stop swinging for the fences and take care of what we already have. What is more likely to happen? Recruit a Dr from Maine or give a local kid in Med School a reason to come back to Natchez. Just open your minds a little and I will open my mind as well to see it from your side of being cautious. If nothing else, if you feel passionate enough to say everything that the City and County are doing wrong, what are you doing to make it right. I know what I'm doing. I volunteer. I look forward. You can't change the past. Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is gift. Thats why it is called the present.

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All of the specs are DONE already. Everything that you requested is in a file. GO ASK JAKE! He has the answers. It will bring people to Natchez to eat in our restuarants, sleep in our hotels, spend money in our shops, buy gas at our gas stations. We can't count on the Louisiana complex because guess what? MS State Tournaments can only be played in what state?? Mississippi!!! OH, MY Gosh!!! And Louisiana State Tournaments can only be played WHERE?? You got it Ladies and Gents! Louisiana......

I'm going to stop being sarcastic....Maybe.....and I ask you before you make up your minds on this to find out the details. Come to the open forum and see that plans. See the economic impact that it has had on other MS towns and cities.

And it's not just baseball and softball. That just happens to be my passion. We are proposing to add tennis courts and other things too. Adults will benefit from this as well. There are Tennis Assn that bid out fall and spring tournaments, etc, years in advance.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I keep reading how everything is booked years in advance. Does this mean if it gets built then it will be years before a tournament could be booked?

Posted by shelockholmes (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

grungebob
You really think there is no public support for the recreation complex, go to 95country.com and look at their poll. Just because you are not for it does not mean the public is not for it.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

when did they let it out for bid (to see what it would ACTUALLY cost)???

Where is "the file"? Can't they put "the file" on the city web site??

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, because if we can get a finished by date; Say Dec. 2011, we can start selling it NOW!! The State, Regional, Nat'l tournaments are booked in advance. We can create Invitational tournaments on our own. In all age groups. We could get the 10 year old girls one weekend and the 11 year old boys the next. There is money to be spent on athletics, who not spend it here.

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That was in reference to booking it in advance.

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah but will it attract more businesses... Natchez is in need or work...but everybody wants to play.

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lol our beds? our restaurants? What will the average citizen see from this.. the hotel owners will get the profits.. the city will get the taxes....to do what with? Nothing but promote tourism... Who is in charge or luring buisnesses to Natchez, because they are failing.. Duncan Park is there.. what about it? What difference will this complex have that Natchez doesn't already have? Hell you'd have to put a pro sports franchise in Natchez to attract people.. a lil complex wont attract that many people.. cmon How can a recreation complex attract people.. hell people already come for the torunaments you all do have.. and Natchez is still struggling... so here yall go down that same path again... tourism..

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"See the economic impact that it has had on other MS towns and cities."

What city has it had an impact on? That city has more than Natchez im sure.. and im sure that people dont only come for the complex... Natchez has old antebellum homes that even I have visited.. yes.. but I got outta dodge as soon as the tour was over.. face it.. there is nothing in Natchez that would make anyone want to stay or spend a extended period of time. Restaurants are good but nothing you cant get anywhere else...isn't MS already the most obese state?

We have unique structures but thats about it... nothing anyone who is from the area hasn't seen before...

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You can NOT host any sort of a tournament beyond 3 or 4 teams on any of the fields that we have now. It is a prerequisite before you can even bid on a tournament to have a 4 field complex that meets certain specifications.

Posted by Gimmeabreak (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Are there still 4 girl's softball fields behind Natchez High? We used to have ball tournaments there all the time and we had lots of teams in different age groups. However, that was many, many moons ago. I don't live in Natchez anymore but I can see both sides of the recreation argument.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for telling us about the 95 country poll, I went there and voted no.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

They are doing a poor job of selling this concept if there actually is a file(s) and they don't post them on the web.

People want to SEE the concept.

Posted by mrmojorisin (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OMG---I'm with Krogers and the rest who support upgrading our Duncan Park facilities. It will take some moving and shaking, some rearranging, but the room is there.

The City could save a lot of money and still come out with something beautiful and functional.

It will serve our purposes. We are not a Hattiesburg or Laurel, or a Gulfport...we are an Ocean Springs, Oxford without the University, Gauthier... we're not on any major highway, in fact we're hard to get at.......and like the beamer said...will it be years after we build it before we could even attempt to hold the Dixie Youth tourneys...

Why not dress up and rebuild what we have? Make it for us. It is our tax dollars, right? The people here in Natchez will support it, we don't have to wait on "them" to come. It can be done. We have some very talented architechs and builders right here in Natchez who could do the job. And if we gotta spend the money, there's nothing more I'd like to see than my tax dollars supporting local business working on a project for the people of our city. And I'll betcha we could still draw some softball tournaments, swimming meets, golf tournaments, if we tried hard enough and had some one to sell it....for that I'm voting for "concernedNTZcitizen" , a true citizen who is willing to take the job and work for nothing...I mean, after all, isn't he who wonders why we would pay anyone to take the job...so, CNC, you got it!!!

The vote is merely to say we are in favor of exploring the rec center. It is not a definitive vote to go ahead and build a $5 million dollar "thing", is it?

--mojo

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Im with Mojo's second paragraph.. I dont sense people are against it.. I think people want more information on it.

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

or his 3rd one rather!

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LMAO@ Scotty me to hahahahhaha!

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@ OMG you are doing a better job selling this thing that anyone.. maybe you should gather the info and post it somehow... because I'm assuming people want to know more before they cast their ballots on something they know little about..

As I said, samething happened here in Baton Rouge, with Mayor Kip Holden's Alive proposal. It got shotdown on the ballot.. and if they want to give this thing a good chance of passing they should get out more information... But you have posted some information.. as to when a public meeting will be held.

Posted by joe_the_plumber (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The concept IS to upgrade Duncan Park. Duncan Park would be upgraded to have a better front nine and more of a tennis complex. The baseball fields would be moved to the "bean field" which we already have a 25 year lease with a 25 year option to renew. We would be upgrading what we already have.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

mojo, It doesn't matter what the vote turns out to be. I have lived here long enough to know they will do whatever they want to do, which is build it. The politicians aren't concerned about the cost because they can raise taxes without the people's approval.

Posted by Mofun2win (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anyone have a preliminary drawing/concept and potential location(s)? If so, please share. Thanks

Posted by mrmojorisin (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

yes.....I'd like to see a preliminary drawing..anybody know if it's available?

--mojo

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There IS one. It will be on display at the Oct. Forum. Be There or Be Square.

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marine, I take that as a compliment and will see if I can indeed do that. Hopefully soon.

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WHAT? we would be building recreational facilities on LEASED property!!!! THAT'S INSANE!!!!!!!!!

so not only are we thinking of a complex when we're already broke, but building part of it on leased property......totally INSANE I say!!!

VOTE NO

thanks for the info JOE, glad to see that Duncan Park is part of the plan, there has really been some POOR SALESMANSHIP in regards to getting the public to want this..

and I appreciate your comments mojo......

But of much more importance is JOBS

with Toyota building a new plant and Nissan already here in MS, you'd think getting out tire plant back in operation would be higher on the priority list for our Mayor and Aldermen and Supervisors than this rec complex.

get the jobs back first......

Posted by Krogers (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

" I’ve requests in Washington, D.C., for help with this project. This is something we can do.” hhhmmm, I didn't know Middleton and Obama were such good buddies that we could take a "request" to the bank.....

but since Joe has brought it out that Duncan Park is involved in this rec complex ( I thought this was to be on the donated property out 61 S that Mathis was so worried about) I would be more in favor, just out of sentimental attachment having practically grown up in Duncan Park. But we cannot make sound fiscal decisions based on emotional sentimentality......

get the plans and the money

the money will come once a fairly distributed tax base is re-established by revitalizing the economy....get the jobs....

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"There IS one. It will be on display at the Oct. Forum. Be There or Be Square.".....

In the year 2009, if you can't put the plan on the web, you need to find somebody else to run the show.

Posted by joe_the_plumber (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 5:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The property is leased from the Federal Government. It is not INSANE to build on leased property. They want us to develop it. They would probably donate the property once we had a complex on it.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm glad to hear the plan will be on display. Do you think they will allow us common people to touch it.

Posted by joe_the_plumber (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All I ask is if you go to the meeting, go with an open mind. It is your right to make suggestions or oppose, but do so knowing all the facts. Half the idiots on here do not know what they are talking about because they have not been to City Hall and gathered information. I was very skeptical at first, but now I am sold. I have young children so I am biased. Before I had kids, I really could care less. I am a big believer that when you are involved in a sport or on a team the life lessons you learn are huge compared to just learning how to play the game. We have a real problem in this town with the poverty stricken families with children. The kids are not getting guidance at home. At least with the opportunity to see structure, discipline, and teamwork that a sports team provides these kids could have a chance. Go to juvenile detention. Its full to capacity. Talk to the Head of CASA and ask him would our children benefit from team sports. Come on marine do you think the "hotel owners will get all the profits". My sister works at one of the hotels. If it closes she and lot of other Natchez people are out of work. And it could close. I don't want more taxes either, but I do want a better life for my children. Once you know the facts, and I will make sure personally they are presented to the public, you will see that it is a no-brainer...God Bless.

Posted by shelockholmes (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 6:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You people need to wake up little Magee MS. has one of the best complex. I wonder how a little town like this can afford it.
I wonder how Vidalia can afford it. We can all keep fighting
and watch the world pass us by. How about St Francisville
nice complex. I will be glad when the vote is over.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 6:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Put it on the web.....there's more discussion here than at the meetings.

.pdf is a wonderful thing.

Posted by natashakubelikov (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sale tax revenues fall 6.8 percent in July

Posted by natashakubelikov (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Build more and more freebies for the scammers to use

Posted by pbnj (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Natchez needs to take $$$$$ in with all the tourist establishments here in town" by 2008

There is only so much money to be made putting old houses on tour and buggy rides.

And maybe some of you could not only see $$$$$$ (loss or gain) and think of the children that could benefit from a complex like this.

Posted by chazbo4 (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

while I'm not necessarily in favor of higher taxes to fund this complex,there may be greater concerns. I.E. the kids playing ball are not doing crimes and the more you have involved,you get the picture.It ain't always about the money. and by the way my kids moved from here years ago to find good jobs.

Posted by steveholmes (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 2:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

DUNCAN PARK IS LARGER THAT IT LOOKS... THEY HAVE PLENTY OF ROOM ONCE SOME MORE LAND THAT IS THERE IS CLEARED AWAY. ALSO, A FEW MILLION OR SO DOLLARS WOULD GO A LONG WAY IN BUILDING HIGH CLASS BLEACHERS, REST ROOMS, ETC. AT ALL THE EXISTING BALL FIELDS AND TENNIS COURTS..POOL FACILITIES COULD BE EXPANDED AND UPDATED. THE GOLF COURSE AND CLUB HOUSE COULD BE COMPLETELY RENIVATED....NICE RESTROOMS IN THE CLUB HOUSE,,,LOUNGE, BAR, RECREATION ROOM FOR YOUNG PEOPLE,,,,COUCHES,,ETC... REST ROOMS ON THE COURSE. WATER FALLS ON SOME HOLES,,, FLOWERS, ETC...ORGANIZE LARGE TOURNAMENTS,ETC.... TAKE AND USE WHAT WE HAVE THERE....INSTEAD OF SPENDING 60 OR SO MILLION DOLLARS ON NEW COMPLEX, JUST SEVERAL MILLION AT DUNCAN PARK CAN GO A LONG WAY IN IMPROVEMENTS AND PLEASE "DO NOT USE THESE OVER PRICED CONTRACTORS " UNLESS THEY GIVE YOU A FAIR AND REASONABLE BID.........SO MUCH CAN BE DONE ON LAND AT DUNCAN PARK FOR FAR LESS MONEY THAT STARTING A NEW COMPLEX FOR THE GROUND UP......PERIOD....

Posted by gardencity (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 6:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a no brainer. I don't have any kids but the only way that this city is going to hold on is to get the youth off the streets and involved in structured activities. then,maybe, in 20 yrs or so we might see some kind of turnaround.
just visit some other cities our size and see what they have going on.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For years black kids weren't allowed to participate in dixie baseball. The Duncan Park pool was the scene of shooting and fights. Getting them off the streets doesn't change anything. Build this complex and in 10 years it will be just another run down, trouble spot eye sore of Natchez.

Posted by pbnj (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Scotty, I don't see why your previous comment is even pertains to the issue.

So don't ever open anything that could have a fight or a shooting... schools, football fields, gas stations?

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Natchez is too black and white. Look at the public school system, the BOA and BOS meetings. This complex would just be another area of raceism. I am just tired of the phrase "get them off the streets" Why? They will act the same no matter where they are. The Duncan Park pool was so nasty when they shut it down for health reasons a river gar couldn't have lived in it.

Posted by omg (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The cost of the new faciities is not 60 million dollars. Whoever thinks that is totally out of it. We are talking $6 million. You will find all of this out soon enough.

Posted by pbnj (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Build the Complex. It's good for the kids and the city. Host tournaments, bring kids and parents to town from all over the country, they spend money locally. Hundreds of kids in a tournament equals thousands of parents coming to see them which equals tens of thousands of dollars (and more) spent in our community in just a few days.

Or

The tour bus groups can make money giving tours of
The Town That Did Nothing. Come see it folks. Watch everything dry rot before your very eyes. It's amazing. This was a beautiful town with much potential filled with great people until the great thumb up the butt plague hit in the 21st century destroying eeverything these people cared about. Very sad story. Don't let it happen to your town.

Posted by hunt4food (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey pbnj, I like that idea. The town that did nothing but complain and wait. We could promote that. The problem would be, who's going to promote that idea. Let's wait and see. Maybe form a committee and wait some more. Folks around here need to quit complaining and get behind something that will be good for the entire town. It's about the kids, the town and the influx of money. If you don't like it, quit crying and come up with a better idea. I have yet to see an idea or a dream that brings people into town like this one. Field of Dreams? You bet! It's alot better than the town that did nothing, but wait and complain.

Posted by beammeupscotty (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You are correct, we are a town that does nothing, because right now we can't afford to mow the ball fields we already have.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

$6 mill? It's already up from $5.4 mill and they've yet to show plans or bids...

And scotty, well said (how can you pay for a new place when you can't even afford to cut your grass).

No problem, just worry about the costs later.

Posted by marinefrmntz (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 4:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I know I dont live in Natchez anymore, but how much income and revenue would this complex generate? How much to operate? You cant get behind something if you dont know all the details point blank. The people that jump into these things without finding out all the information are the same ones who entered into sub-prime loans and mortages. The kids? Hardly.. thats just a lame excuse. How many times throughout the year will the kids be using this? It even sounds like its going to be useless.. no jobs.. but well build a complex that will hopefully attract more tourist to spend money in our town!! lol... That strategy isn't working... obviously by the fall of revenue. Use Duncan Park... renovate it... modernize it or whatever you have to do.. but building a complex won't solve the financial issues... Yes anyone could use a recreation complex..but thats just the problem.. Natchez keeps trying to put makeup on a black eye. If they courted buisnesses and attracted more people I could see having a complex.. but most of its citizens have either moved.. and on the way out.... Natchez doesn't even think about how to keep the young adults in Natchez.. and recreation complex wont do that.... find a way to keep your most precious commodity in the city.. and thats the people.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

About as much money as that old convention center by natchez high generated.

Posted by joe_the_plumber (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We are not trying to solve all of the financial problems in Natchez with a rec comlex. None of us in favor believe that this is the cure all. It's one piece of the puzzle. Can't say with certainty how much money it will bring Natchez. All we know is what it has done for other towns. Youth recreation is the fasting growing industry in the United States. It's a domino effect of income. No it will not employ a vast amount of people. It will only help the stores, hotels, restaurants, shops, gas stations, radio stations, sales tax revenue, and our youth. What else is generating NEW income?

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

None of this is a "no brainer".

The old convention center? Probably another "no brainer".

The tax that was SUPPOSED to fund advertising? Probably another "no brainer" (so much of one that enacted a second tax to do what the 1st one was supposed to do).

Keep it all at Duncan Park (which the city can't afford to cut the grass at right now).

If it's such a great idea, PUT IT ON THE CITY WEB SITE. It's 2009.

Posted by natashakubelikov (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The thugs and druggies will tear it up in a month.

Posted by natashakubelikov (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kids don,.t go to rec complexes,they run the roads,play vid games,text constantly and hang out.

Posted by joe_the_plumber (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It IS a no brainer to vote yes for the non-binding resolution in November. Even if 100% of the voters voted yes the city is not obligated to do anything. Then the city can explore ways of finding financing through grants, bond issue, or stimulus.

Posted by niderbip (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PUT IT ON THE WEB.